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#1 2019-02-25 14:26:28

igor
Senior Member
Registered: 2012-07-20
Posts: 47

Simulation using step files

Hey guys!

Vericut reads step file, anyone knows what are the drawbacks of use this file type in simulation instead of use vericut stl file? I did some quick tests and for me seems to run in the same way. Anyone knows something about that?

Thanks!


Igor Freitas
CNC programming
GROB - Brazil

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#2 2019-02-28 12:33:23

KHicks
Member
Registered: 2019-02-15
Posts: 7

Re: Simulation using step files

Good Man.

Step files are better then STL's.

Much clearer to see and way smaller in file size.

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#3 2019-03-05 17:13:23

Verifun
Senior Member
From: U.S.
Registered: 2005-03-31
Posts: 351
Website

Re: Simulation using step files

Other than a few extra seconds to load each model from the disk (Assuming you are not removing the link when you convert - If you do, the converter translates STEP to PLY as a file and then it's VERICUT format all along).

I say as a file because VERICUT only interprets PLY. What happens when you do not remove the link is that the STEP to PLY model only exists in the memory (A temp file in the disk maybe) and every time you open the project the files need to be re-translated.

Another drawback is that you need the STEP license available every time the models needs to be translated again, normally after a reset or project reload. If you float a single STEP license among many users and one of them is using it at the time your seat needs to open a project or reload a model, your project load will fail because the license was not available at the time it was needed.

Pros of not converting to PLY:

* If your engineering keeps changing the design, you always save the latest STEP file at the vcproject folder (Same is true to other formats supported by VERICUT like PRT, NX, etc.) and when you open the project you ALWAYS have the latest design/stock. This avoids human errors if someone forgets to convert the latest STEP to PLY 1st. I've seen it happen and it's bad.

Cons of not converting to PLY:

* You need the STEP license available when you open projects. This some times is an issue when a single license is floated among several users.
* Project load is slower because VERICUT needs to convert every model to PLY before it is shown to you. VERICUT only understands PLY. VERICUT does not understand B-Rep formats. The 3D Interop converter basically translates whatever you need (If you have the license for the supported formats) to PLY 1st.

HTH

Daniel

Last edited by Verifun (2019-03-05 17:15:48)


Daniel Santos

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#4 2019-03-06 09:49:54

s_liam
Senior Member
From: Russia
Registered: 2008-12-15
Posts: 23

Re: Simulation using step files

Verifun wrote:

Other than a few extra seconds to load each model from the disk (Assuming you are not removing the link when you convert - If you do, the converter translates STEP to PLY as a file and then it's VERICUT format all along).
* You need the STEP license available when you open projects. This some times is an issue when a single license is floated among several users.
Daniel

No need anymore to buy STEP license. It`s included to VERICUT base license for now (as i know).

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#5 2019-03-07 10:03:13

igor
Senior Member
Registered: 2012-07-20
Posts: 47

Re: Simulation using step files

Verifun wrote:

Other than a few extra seconds to load each model from the disk (Assuming you are not removing the link when you convert - If you do, the converter translates STEP to PLY as a file and then it's VERICUT format all along).

I say as a file because VERICUT only interprets PLY. What happens when you do not remove the link is that the STEP to PLY model only exists in the memory (A temp file in the disk maybe) and every time you open the project the files need to be re-translated.


Thanks Daniel! It was exatcly what I thought but I'm not sure if it is right to assume that *.ply files are the similar to *.stl files?

This question is because there isn't a converter step to *.ply, the cad2v converter output is as Vericut file with *.stl extension, but it is readable and is similiar to *.stl standard (this is the same format when we export models from NX or oder Cad interface).

But if we import step files in project tree, and choose the option "Remove references", Vericut convert the same step file in a *.ply file that isn't readable and is lighter than the *.stl file built by the cad2v converter.

My interest in this details comes from a python script that I'm working, the goal is to automate the construction of the virtual machine passin through this steps below:

- Assembling the main components;
- Moving to the correct position;
- Exporting the models in a step format
- Running the conversor to translate for a optmized file format
- build the mch and vcproject xml files.

And for this reason I can't use the 2° option to translate the steps file into *.ply file by removing references in vericut.


Igor Freitas
CNC programming
GROB - Brazil

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#6 2019-03-25 13:32:19

Verifun
Senior Member
From: U.S.
Registered: 2005-03-31
Posts: 351
Website

Re: Simulation using step files

s_liam wrote:
Verifun wrote:

Other than a few extra seconds to load each model from the disk (Assuming you are not removing the link when you convert - If you do, the converter translates STEP to PLY as a file and then it's VERICUT format all along).
* You need the STEP license available when you open projects. This some times is an issue when a single license is floated among several users.
Daniel

No need anymore to buy STEP license. It`s included to VERICUT base license for now (as i know).

True. I forgot that one!


Daniel Santos

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#7 2019-03-25 13:39:05

Verifun
Senior Member
From: U.S.
Registered: 2005-03-31
Posts: 351
Website

Re: Simulation using step files

PLY as far as I know it's similar to STL in essence but not the same

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLY_(file_format)


Daniel Santos

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#8 2019-04-23 15:14:25

vhubbard
Beta User
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: 2004-11-11
Posts: 222
Website

Re: Simulation using step files

The Step license is now part of the base package in current revs.   

The main problem I have, other than the delay opening, is the Tolerance the internal conversion is done at. 

When I create the ply/stl from the CAD systems I have control of the resolution.   Modeling .001", Stock, .010", fixture .020".   But when importing, Vericut uses a default. The Model Tolerance setting from the Documents.   .004"/.1mm

Setting my default Model tolerance to .001" for everything is not something I want to do from past experience.  It can slow Vericut 2x or more.

When the design model is too coarse, > .001" then gouge messages appear all over when a cutter comes to a corner.   Our standard is .003"/.075mm gouge checking.

We were able to get separate tolerance values for Holders and cutters implemented in recent revs, but the Cutter side importing from Step still defaulted to the Holder tolerance in my last tests.

The only answer I see for a true, accurate use of step files is being able to assign and import tolerance when used.

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#9 2019-06-12 15:21:58

SergeV
Senior Member
From: Irvine, CA
Registered: 2004-10-08
Posts: 507
Website

Re: Simulation using step files

When VERICUT opens a STP file with reference or not, it is converted into a PLY. The only advantage of maintaining the link would be to insure that you have the latest version of the model when you open VERICUT. If you do not worry about the model changing over time, then break the link and save a few seconds.

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#10 2019-06-13 14:17:42

igor
Senior Member
Registered: 2012-07-20
Posts: 47

Re: Simulation using step files

So if I got it, this means that using step files instead of stl files I wouldn't lose anything in terms of process time or process power, and still get the same results of simulating with stl, right?

So it would be possible to automatize the export of models from NX - using python journal to export to stp - and there is no need to convert to stl using vericut batch conversors... Maybe I could add this script to TCE do this job of open the model and export it in the background...

Thank you all!


Igor Freitas
CNC programming
GROB - Brazil

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